rebelraising: (searle-pronouns)
[personal profile] rebelraising
Okay, let's do it. "No gendered pronouns" day is next Wednesday, 11th July.

Everyone taking part defines their own limits; everyone promises to post about how it's going/ how it went for them.

[Poll #1016395]

Quick edit to add: here's the post for linking any write-ups of your experiences in taking part.

Date: 2007-07-06 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fox1013.livejournal.com
For the record, I would be in, but after viewing my success rate with trying to or not to say anything in the past, basically ever, I think I'm just going to choose to be conscious of when, for me, gendered pronouns come up.

Also: would you mind if I mention this in my LJ? Or do you want to keep this to a small group?

Date: 2007-07-06 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Also: would you mind if I mention this in my LJ? Or do you want to keep this to a small group?

No, go for it! Actually, I'll unlock the entry so people can join in the poll, perhaps?

Date: 2007-07-06 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lilitufire.livejournal.com
With the proviso that I might only speak to my bloke and some Japanese people, and gendered pronouns seem to be less important (boku and kanojo exist, but only when talking to people about other people in front of them)

Date: 2007-07-06 02:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Ha, we'll have you for diversity cover, and you can LJ about how it's less of a big deal when you're speaking Japanese.

Date: 2007-07-06 03:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] riarambles.livejournal.com
...and I was busy thinking that it would be impossible to do my job without using gendered pronouns, given that it's almost impossible to speak much Spanish without them. :)

Date: 2007-07-06 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Yeah, the thought occurred to me, too - Spanish is the contrast language used in the research for early vs late "revelation" of referent gender. Oh, and I note the person living in Germany hasn't opted in either :)

Date: 2007-07-06 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterboy1.livejournal.com
That's interesting: Spanish in particular? Rather than, say, Italian?

Date: 2007-07-06 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] riarambles.livejournal.com
I think Italian and Spanish are about the same. It's a Romance language thing in general.

Date: 2007-07-06 08:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterboy1.livejournal.com
Yes, that was my thought, too - and why I was surprised, if Spanish in particular tends to be used as a contrast.

Date: 2007-07-07 07:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
It's just because much of the work has been done by a group of researchers in Spain - experimental artefact! But as a cobsequence, I always think of Spanish rather than another language.

Date: 2007-07-09 03:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mollydot.livejournal.com
Without gendered pronouns? Can't you just drop the pronouns most of the time?

Date: 2007-07-06 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moireach.livejournal.com
Are you planning to use the singular "they" instead?

Date: 2007-07-10 01:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hobbledehoy.livejournal.com
i think it's up to the participant. that's my choice, though. :D

Date: 2007-07-10 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Yep, up to whoever. I think I'll be "they"-ing, mostly.

Date: 2007-07-06 02:55 pm (UTC)
andrewducker: (Default)
From: [personal profile] andrewducker
I'm in, with the proviso that if my work requires me to work on something that splits down by gender then I'll have to for that :->

Date: 2007-07-10 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Well, we don't want anyone actually losing their job over it...

Date: 2007-07-06 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] biascut.livejournal.com
Ace idea! I'm in, and I'll mention it on my LJ. Mind, I can't promise to speak to anyone except Glitz.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
I'm meeting [livejournal.com profile] hfnuala and [livejournal.com profile] majea tomorrow for some ungendered afternoon tea. I wonder how that'll go? Tell you what, if you haven't talked to anyone but Glitz by then, we'll phone you.

Date: 2007-07-06 03:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] autumnyte.livejournal.com
Do you mind if I post this in my LJ? Also, does it matter what we use for non-gendered pronouns (ze, hir, etc. Or should we just use they?)

Date: 2007-07-06 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Define your own limits! I think I'll go for they because I like it, but using ze would draw attention to it and get conversations going. I hope, actually, people will use a dozen different approaches and see how they work out.

Post away!

Date: 2007-07-06 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterboy1.livejournal.com
I'll probably use a mixture of 'they' and names, I think.

Out of interest, when you're using 'they' in that way, do you use 'themself', or 'themselves'? I tie myself in knots over this: the singular is clearly correct, but is going to be much more distracting for the listener. When writing, I often end up recasting the sentence in the plural...

Date: 2007-07-09 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daegaer.livejournal.com
Hmmm - I think I use "themself" as a generic singular: I saw a person struggling with groceries and the door, but then they managed to open it themself. It doesn't sound too weird to me - maybe it's a dialectical difference?

Date: 2007-07-10 01:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hobbledehoy.livejournal.com
i use singular they for myself and i use "themself" when i'm talking in third person.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
I think, like the other respondents, I say "themself". But obviously now I'm thinking about it, I don't know!

Date: 2007-07-06 04:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anglaisepaon.livejournal.com
I'm in, but in a modified form. I've never actually paid much attention to how I use pronouns, so I'll feel it out as I go.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Hooray! We're all in this for a bit of finding out how we usually speak, I think - it's just not something I think about, despite having done years of PhD work on it.

Date: 2007-07-06 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterboy1.livejournal.com
I'm in, though I know that I've got a long and potentially difficult meeting on Wednesday, so I might have to see how that goes...

Date: 2007-07-06 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] glitterboy1.livejournal.com
Btw, did I already say that I think this is a brilliant idea? I'm not sure I did. But it is. :-)

And now I'm going to stop spamming your post. Sorry.

Date: 2007-07-06 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zoje-george.livejournal.com
Can't do it. I have two private classes on that day and they're all about the pronouns right now. Damn.

Date: 2007-07-08 08:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Well, you can always discount class tme and do the rest of the day?

Date: 2007-07-07 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kerr-avon.livejournal.com
I have various epithets for Blake. Few of them require a stipulation as to gender.

Date: 2007-07-08 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] traballenguas.livejournal.com
Hmmm. in Catalan this is going to be a real bear. Maybe I can just point and grunt. "This person" is feminine, so I may be reduced to referring to people as "that" (although "that" is masculine - whoops).

Oh my.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Eek! I'll be really fascinated to know how you get on - definining limits for you might be that you're not going to use gender-identifying pronouns, wheras gendered ones that can refer to any sex are OK?

Date: 2007-07-10 02:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] traballenguas.livejournal.com
Hmm. I proposed to gair that I just speak in Ido for the day, but that will be hard, since I don't speak Ido.

I am getting a little confused. What would be an example of not using gender-identifying pronouns? "The person that was here a minute ago"? "You" and "me" are not gendered (not in Catalan either, except in the plural).

I know, I could use slang! Like, calling every one "cat" or "frood" or something.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
For me, I think "he" and "she" are the main issue, though I'll also be trying to avoid other words that are gender-identifying ("man" etc).

But also, I am so calling people "cat".

Date: 2007-07-10 03:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] traballenguas.livejournal.com
Meow!

The thing that really sucks about Catalan is that even using proper names, you don't say "Robert", you often say "el Robert" or "la Cecilia". In the third person I can use "li" for everything, which is not really correct, but I am a foreigner, so they will cut me some slack.

It sounds like a fun challenge, though. As an English speaker, it is a huge struggle to shoehorn the idea of gendering everything (including inanimate objects) into your head, it will be interesting to see if I can shoehorn it out from the inside.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elucreh.livejournal.com
Hm.

It's actually one of the stated objectives of my preschool curriculum that the kids use pronouns numerically and gen...dorially? accurately.

Maybe on Wednesday I should undermine the system?

Date: 2007-07-10 02:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
I'm thoroughly in favour of undermining the system.

Date: 2007-07-10 03:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xanphibian.livejournal.com
Fabulous idea.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:06 pm (UTC)

Date: 2007-07-10 09:15 am (UTC)
doire: (Default)
From: [personal profile] doire
I saw this in [livejournal.com profile] daegaer's journal. Are you happy for strangers to join in?

It's something I'm interested in since I worked in a feminist centre for many years and I suspect I use proportionally more ungendered pronouns than most. Unless it's worn off in the last year.

Date: 2007-07-10 02:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cangetmad.livejournal.com
Join and have fun! I'm hoping to put up another open post tomorrow and get everyone's "What I Did" posts linked from there.

Date: 2007-07-11 01:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metamorphosa.livejournal.com
Hello!
I've been sent here via a not-so-subtle hint in Glitterboy1's journal.

If you're happy for me to join in, I would love to. I'm really looking forward to it as a little personal study actually, and as it happens, tomorrow I have a whole host of appointments and meetings which should make it quite interesting...

Date: 2007-07-11 01:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] plum177.livejournal.com
It should be an interesting challenge (one I have only just found this morn since I have been unable to check my flist for ages. I'm not certain wherther I have used any gendered pronouns as yet today (i.e. in the past 2 hours) but I will be trying not to for the rest of the day. I think as most other people who are participating I will be going for the neutral 'they' and 'themself'...

I look on this as a challenge. A fun challege! :)

P.S. - I got the message from [livejournal.com profile] daegaer's journal. (In case you wanted to know how I got here or anything) Oh, and I will be reporting back on thursday to let you know how it went; okay?

Date: 2007-07-11 01:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] plum177.livejournal.com
ooops, made a mistake, came here from [livejournal.com profile] foreverdirt's journal instead. Not that it makes a great deal of difference, I'm here either way! *smile*

Date: 2007-07-14 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] radegund.livejournal.com
Boo! The Radzer, she missed it! That's what she gets for swanning off to Newfoundland with ne'er a though for her industrious and fascinating f-list.

She'esh.

Oh well. Perhaps we can make it an annual event :-)
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